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    1. #1
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      Starcraft 2 Viking build, when do I build the first refinery?

      Ok, first of all I'm a new SC player. I never played SC 1 and perhaps spent 2-3 hours on WC.

      I've played a lot of other RTS's though. Like, I've beaten a friend of mine who are top 5 silver in another RTS game.

      But, a new game (should) mean a new mind, and SC is that kind of game. I was completely lost at first, and then gradually began to understand the game, a lot thanks to SCVRush and OneManZerg at the UEN.

      So, let's put it short, I'm not a vet SC player though a rather experienced RTS player, I've played 7 1v1 training games and won 4, 2 2v2 games, won 1. (Though, by all means, I'm NOT a great player. By experienced I mean that I've played RTS for a long time and played a lot of different games, not that I'm good. Basically it means that I understand a bit, so don't use the tea spoon).

      --

      My question is simple. At what supply should I build my first refinery if I'm going for Viking(/marine + medevac)?

      I build depo at 9, rax right after (11 or 12, not sure), Orbital command when rax is finnished (I usually push out 4 SCV's during the rax build, so it would be around 15 supply), then go factory once I hit 100 gas and Starport once I finish the factory.

      Then reactor on the SP, another SP and an expansion with Orbital Command.

      Of course I build SCV's all the time and also wall off my ramp with a second supply and bunker.

      This far I've been able to throw out my first two Vikings after about 10 minutes (Normal speed, I'm still in training), is that ok?

      I just played 4 games aiming for fast Vikings, 2 1v1 and 2 2v2. Lost and won one of each. The losses was not really due to bad build order, but simply due to bad luck. The other player(s) had a build that countered Vikings very good (Stalkers on the 1v1 and reaper rush on the 2v2 so I lost the income to build a sizable Viking force).

      So, my question is pretty simple: At what supply should I build my first Refinery in order to build a Factory and Starport as soon as possible?

      I've noticed that a Viking demands twice as much crystal as gas, and you usually mine a lot more crystal then gas.

      In the 4 games I found myself either short on minerals or on gas when starting to build Vikings, so at what supply should I go for Refinery, and what supply should I go for 2nd command to ensure that my gas/mineral income are best suited for a Viking build?

      Just a quick recap. I aim for 2 starports with reactor. A simple defense of 2 supply depos and a bunker with marines (may of course be more supply depos if the ramp are wider).

      --

      And.. Perhaps a more vital question.. How good is this build? I've watched a few reviews, and I've never really seen a full on Viking build..

      Is this build really crappy once you get to fight in the real matches? Cause I've found it relatively useful in the training matches (you know, with rocks everywhere..).

      --

      Regardless of its future potential I'd still like a build order for Viking build.

      (One more note. In the last three games I went for a Viking build I didn't build tech lab for the factory, and didn't build anything apart from Vikings, Medevacs and marines. I went with 2 rax 2 SP, both SP had reactor, one rax had reactor one had tech to get stimpack for max damage with a drop). I had 2 orbital coms.)

      --

      EDIT: Heh, I managed to write Diamond instead of Silver.. I beat a Silver player in another RTS game, not a Diamond : ) Sorry for the confuse : )
      Last edited by stygN; 09-09-2010 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Typo

    2. #2
      Moderator Moderas's Avatar
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      Hello StygN and welcome to the forums. For almost all builds in the Terran arsenal you will want to put down your first refinery at 13 supply and the second between 15 and 18 depending on how gas heavy your build is. Due to the fact you like to tech to vikings quickly, I would suggest the second refinery being 15 or 16. As for its usefulness, I have seen many people use a similar build in 4v4 and occasionally 3v3 but I havnt actually been faced with massed vikings in a 1v1 before. I imagine that army composition could have some trouble dealing with large ground forces, though. As for expanding, your best bet is to do it as soon as you feel comfortable. If you are in a position where you know your base will be safe long enough to set it up and you dont need to spend the 400 minerals on units right away, then you should expand.

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      As I said, I'm still in the training matches, with rocks everywhere. So Rushes are no big deal.

      Massed ground forces vs vikings? Well, it depends on the troops the other player has..

      As I tried to say, in one of the 1v1 vs Protos the Protos built a ton of Stalkers, and of course, stalkers eat Vikings.

      Whilst on another 1v1 game I faced a Terran that went for a medevac+marine build. Luckily I scouted him and scanned him so I knew when he sent the medevacs, and indeed my Vikings tore through his forces killing half while they were still in mid air.

      It all depends on build vs build I guess..

      In a regular game I guess Viking build would be rather useless since it takes too long.. A reaper rush or marauder+bunker in their base may be a better bet...

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      At what supply should I build my first refinery if I'm going for Viking(/marine + medevac)?

      There are 2 builds for this, the more common version is to build the refinery shortly (at 13 or 14scvs) after you put up the barracks. This way, it allows you to build the factory asap!.

      The second build order is to build the refinery before the barracks. This is a more risky build because you have no defense for a while, but it is very powerful on a large 4 player map.

      Good Starcraft question: How good is this build?

      Viking is really important in a Terran vs Terran battle because controlling the air is very important. Therefore, getting a starport and possibly a reactor is essential to gain that air support. I would not use this build order against a protoss because they have so many anti air units.
      Against a zerg, build just a few vikings so you can harass and destroy all the overlords floating around the map.

      If you could upload a replay, we can take a look.

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      Hmm... I have 4 replies saved. 1 loss and 1 win 1v1, 1 loss and 1 win 2v2 with Viking build.

      But how do I give you my replies?

      (Thanks a ton for your reply!! * bows*")

      EDIT: I played another 1v1 vs Zerg with the Viking build. Truth be told I was (and still am) rather drunk. But if you could give me a hints on what I should have done in that match with my Vikings, I'd be very pleased : )

      (I still don't know how to give you my replies though... )
      Last edited by stygN; 09-09-2010 at 06:47 PM.

    6. #6
      Moderator SCVrush's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by stygN View Post
      Hmm... I have 4 replies saved. 1 loss and 1 win 1v1, 1 loss and 1 win 2v2 with Viking build.

      But how do I give you my replies?

      (Thanks a ton for your reply!! * bows*")

      EDIT: I played another 1v1 vs Zerg with the Viking build. Truth be told I was (and still am) rather drunk. But if you could give me a hints on what I should have done in that match with my Vikings, I'd be very pleased : )

      (I still don't know how to give you my replies though... )
      http://www.theuen.com/forum/starcraf...ys-theuen.html

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