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Thread: Zerg Protoss ZvP Strategy Discussion
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    1. #1
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      Zerg Protoss ZvP Strategy Discussion

      Hello there I am pretty new to Starcraft 2 and have learned a lot from this site. Currently I can handle ZvT and ZvZ with great ease but when it comes to ZvP I have lost every game. Does anyone know any openers our strategies that could help me? My standard opener is usually a 10 pool if I can but if they block I fast expand.

    2. #2
      Super Moderator OneManZerg's Avatar
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      Deathcon,

      I would recommend going with a 14 pool, 15 FE or a 14 pool 13 extractor build with Protoss - depending on the map. If it's a larger map with an easily defendable expansion, I recommend the 14 pool, 15 FE. However, if it's a smaller map and you see they are chrono'ing out an early Zealot I would look to go with a more defensive build of a 13/14 pool and then a quick extractor followed by an expansion around the 20-25 unit mark (and usually with a spine crawler or two to help you defend).

      From there, scouting is key to determine opponent army composition. If your opponent is going mixed Zealots, Stalkers, Sentries then I would go a mix roach/ling. If your opponent is going with a more stalker build I'd recommend lings, and if they are going straight zealots (which is not very typical) I would then go with straight roaches. Also, you can go quick tech to mutalisk, which I like to do, as that keeps you adaptable as well and gives tons of harassment options.

      Then, you need to scout their tech and timing. Are they going for a timed push. A typical protoss 3-4 gate 7-8 minute push with 15 units or are they teching? If they are doing a timed push you will need to be ready to defend it as that first fight is the hardest. You should have a few spine crawlers and a comparably sized army + queen support. If they are teching you need to find that out as phoenix harass can be devastating and a void ray push that isn't prepared for is basically instant good game. See if you need spore crawlers or extra queens to defend that or if your muta's or hydras will be out in time (if you are getting those units).

      Check out this video too. This is me playing against a protoss with a pretty typical gameplay style of mine (I typically go ling --> muta, but I also mix it up a lot) Video is here: ZvP Strategy Perspective - OneManZerg Vs TheAnswer - Starcraft 2 Commentary

      Hope that helps. If you need more clarification please tell me or tell us if it worked out for you. =)

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      Thanks a lot for the advice it has helped and I am winning now. But one more question, I am seeing more and more that Protoss will go with early Voidrays, do you have any advice for that? Also I am having a problem with Colossus and how to deal with them properly.

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      Super Moderator OneManZerg's Avatar
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      Good to hear that that's helping Deathcon,

      As for the Void Rays and the Colossus there are a few things.

      First off, continue to scout your opponent throughout the game. A sacrificial, "sac," overlord into their base after the early game can help to tell you if they are going air or not. Look to see if they have a stargate somewhere - and to see their army size. Some Protoss players will hide their tech structures so you can't find them if you just run into their base and so judging their army size will help a lot. Do they have a HUGE army? Likely no air or tech. Does their army seem smaller than it should be? They may be going for air or tech (or they may just not be spending their money). These 'feels' are a little bit judgemental but you will get used to it as you play more.


      Past the scouting:
      Stargate Found:
      If you can scout a stargate do a couple things. First off, are you going to get mutalisks or hydralisks soon? That is, is the structure almost completed? If so, then you should be ok just build some mutas/hydras when it completes. If not, then you should immediately build a queen at each of your hatcheries (unless you don't have a lair, then I'd recommend upgrading one to a lair and building a queen at the other one). Also, as soon as I spot a stargate I immediately build an evolution chamber if I don't have one already and then drop 2-3 spore colonies at each of my bases. A spore colony + queen combo is typically very good at fending off Void Rays or Phoenix. Long Term, Hydralisks and Mutalisks all do very well vs. Void Rays but you need to have numbers on your opponent.

      Robo Bay / Robitics Facility Found. These are diffiuclt to deal with, I'd recommend Mutalisks though. If a Protoss player is going Stalker + Colossus I usually try to meet it with Ling + Mutalisk. It's a basic way of dealing with it. You can eventually tech to Infestor with neural parasite (that adds tougher micro though) and then to Ultralisk - which owns Protoss ground. Colossus will devastate Hydralisks and Roaches (moreso Hydras though). It's 3 shots to kill a Hydralisk and Colossus do spread damage so that's not a good unit composition vs. Colossus. I you have those units already, try to focus fire on the Colossus quickly and fight on creep whenever possible to give you a movement advantage. Ling + Muta, is better though and will get in and avoid the spread damage largely and allow for you to take out the Colossus quickly. Transition into Corrupters too as they do excellent damage vs. Colossus. Also, if you are going Ling + Muta to counter Colossus then you should focus on constantly harassing and applying pressure. The more distratcted your opponent, the better your chances.

      For the ling + muta combo there are a few things to think about.

      If they have TONS of stalkers and only a couple colossus, target down the colossus with your mutalisks quickly and let your lings do their thing.
      If they have TONS of colossus and only a few stalkers, target down the Stalkers and then clean up the Colossus with your mutalisks after.

      It's a judgement call as to what will allow you to better win the fight, your goal is to be able to kill all of their army and survive with as much as yours as possible. Typically, that means killing their anti-air first, but if you have more ground and less air, killing the Colossus first is critical.

      I know that's a lot of info so ask questions if you need any of it clarified, hope that helps.

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      Thanks a lot I just played a quick 1v1 and got a Protoss player. I countered an early void ray push and then attacked with mass mutas to win. I just have a few more questions. I was wondering if Brood Lords were good against Protoss ground and also if you could go a little more in depth into Zerg scouting.

    6. #6
      Super Moderator OneManZerg's Avatar
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      Hey Deathcon, congratulations on defeating your Protoss opponent. It's always a good feeling (sorry toss players).

      As for the Brood Lord, yes, it is good vs. the Protoss Ground army. The great thing about the Brood Lords is their broodlings SHOULD draw the Colossus fire (and other units' fire) away from your other troops - allowing your army greater survivability.

      However, you must watch out for Blink stalkers and support the Brood Lords with anti-air units. Blink Stalkers will blink under your Brood Lords, target fire them and then blink back out rather quickly. Also, air units can go in and attack your Brood Lords as well. For this, I think a pretty good combo is Brood Lords + Hydralisks. The Hydralisks do well vs. Void Rays and Phoenix (and carriers, reasonably) but they must be careful to avoid the Colossus - which your Brood Lords Broodlings SHOULD help with. Hydralisks are also strong vs. Stalkers and Stalker Blink is the enemy of the Brood Lord so, typically you want Brood Lords and Hydralisks directly below them - or slightly behind if your opponent has lots of Colossus. This way if the Stalkers blink in, your Hydralisks will punish them quickly and help to save a lot of your Brood Lords.

      As for Scouting there are several options.

      Mutalisk harassment is a great form of scouting. You can harass as well as do fly-overs to see what tech your opponent is going.
      Overlord sacrifices are great in the early-mid game as they allow you to see what your opponent is teching to. Simply run an overlord into their base from right outside their main - try to do it from an angle they won't have troops at though, allowing you to see as much as possible.
      Another great way is Overseers. Simply morph an Overlords hanging around about the map is great too. I try to put Overlords at most of the expansions so I know if an opponent is expanding their or if they have troops moving and where they are moving - allowing me greater flexibility in my army positioning and harassment.
      Lastly, is harassing with Speedlings or burrowed roaches, the speed and the burrow allow you some more flexibility in avoiding getting killed and quick hit and runs are great for scouting and potentially doing some damage to your opponent.

      I think all of those are great tips that can help bring your game to the next level. Keep telling us about your victories and asking questions though if you have some. =)

      -OneManZerg

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      Wow thanks for all the Advice so far I have been using a more macro opening with a 14 Pool and 15 Hatch and 16 Extractor. It works real well against protoss but I was wondering if there was anything I should worry about with this build?

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      Super Moderator OneManZerg's Avatar
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      Send out your scout drone at 9 or 10 supply and look out for an early chrono boosted zealot or multiple chrono boosted zealots. They will cause a lot of pain as you will not have as many minerals to produce zerglings so if you see that know that you should build a spine crawler or two and be prepared to go almost purely zerglings with your larva for a while - at least til the pressure slows.

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      OneManZerg-

      Thanks for all the work you have done with the video, strats, and so forth. I've found as much enjoyment learning about the game as playing it thanks to you, and as a result, i can spend more time working on my game instead of learning the hard way how to counter particularly effective cheeses/strats. As a zerg player in silver league, I come across the protoss canon rush frequently. I dont think that i have beaten it yet. But this is problematic if since I got into a grove going 14/15pool 15 extractor - can't get my defenses up in time. Pool pops around 3 min.

      What do you think is the most efficient way to deal with this? 10 pool and wait for the probe?
      When scouting, what do you look for? It is tough to scout your base and your opponents at the same time - the pesky probe sneaks in unnoticed sometimes. Replay shows canon warping in same time as my pool (just after 3min).

      I feel like i have to expect it, but naturally you sacrifice macro to do. Lose-lose situation. Thoughts?

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      Super Moderator OneManZerg's Avatar
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      Franchise,

      For your problem I recommend a couple things.

      1 - send your starting overlord to watch your ramp - not to your opponents base. If this is hard for you to stop get a heads up as early as possible.
      2 - As soon as you see the proxy pylon send 1 drone to attack the probe and 2 - 4 to attack the pylon.
      2 - Also, as soon as you see the proxy pylon put down your spawning pool. For example, if he builds a pylon in your base when you have 11 food, then don't build any more drones until you have started constructing your spawning pool.
      3 - Build a Spine Crawler as soon as your spawning pool finishes - preferably in between where their cannons are and where your base is. You MUST construct the spine crawler out of range of their cannons though or else it will be destroyed while being constructed. You may want to build 2-3 total spine crawlers as well. However, maintain at least 9-10 drones on minerals or else you won't be able to produce enough.
      4 - Build Zerglings as soon as your spawning pool finishes and also try to save to...
      5 - Build a Queen if you have enough minerals. A Queen is important to get creep tumors to help stop them from pushing in on your base (spawn the tumor out of range of their cannons). I would recommend spawning larva as soon as the Queen spawns and with her next 25 energy spawning a creep tumor - Out of range of the cannons, of course but that will be in a position to inhibit their further spread of cannons.
      6 - Continue to get a split of drones and zerglings from your hatchery

      From here if you've killed the probe then he can't do much to you until her brings another. I would recommend sending zerglings after the probe to kill it if possible if your drone hasn't. Don't send them though if it's suicide into cannons.

      Also, going to roach tech would be advisable as roaches are heartier than zerglings and can more easily take down photon cannons. once you've built up enough roaches you can push out on the barricade.

      lastly, if possible, sneak out 4+ zerglings to harass their base. Often times your opponent won't have defenses at their own base so getting into their base will shift the pressure off of you and onto them. I love to counterattack or apply pressure when pressure is being applied on me or about to be applied on me.

      Hope that Helps Franchise. =)

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