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    1. #1
      Member Zilmerx's Avatar
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      Need help.

      Hi, all.

      First I have to say that I couldn't find the post where you put your downloads for the community to help us, sooo I made that post.

      Me and my friends have started to play 3v3, and now we need some help. We are ranked about 30 in bronze, so don't be shocked if you see noobs at play .

      We seem to have a big problem when the other team makes a push and keep making units, maybe my friends don't have the right counters, or maybe I just don't make enough units, I don't really know. Here is one of my replays that is pretty representative of the situation:
      Constant push - Starcraft 2 Replays - Starcraft 2 Forum

    2. #2
      Senior Member Fealorin's Avatar
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      Ok, I can see lots of problems already. Your team has terrible macro. Your terran buddy had almost no unit producing structures fit for an early rush. He had 2 starports with no tech labs. What good is that against a ground push? Was he trying to go banshees or something? He also didn't a tech lab on the factory. Siege tanks could have saved him or do enough damage to the enemy army that by the time you and your zerg buddy got to his base you would be able to mop up the enemy forces. If your buddy went banshees, he could have put pressure on the enemy and put them on the defense allowing you guys more time to expand and macro up.

      Your zerg had only 1 hatchary, it's going to be tough as hell to push back on only 1 hatchary.

      YOU had only 3 warpgates. Your enemies pretty much did a one base all-in each. Let me explain something about team games.

      1 Base All in strategies work well with team games. It's not cheese, it's being effective. It looked like your team were all doing 1v1 type builds which doesn't work in team games. You guys need to rush earlier. Your terran buddy can go 3 barracks mass marines for an early push into marine tank medivac build. Your zerg could have early expanded and roach rushed get a 2nd early hatch and mass speedlings while you mass stalkers or you mass zealots and your zerg buddy mass roaches. Zealots, roaches, marines is a pretty power packed combo. By the time your first push would be over your terran buddy would have seige tanks up ready for a second push with medivacs in production to reinforce all of your units. Zealots, roaches, marines are all bio, medivacs would be super effective.

      You all need to join armies together earlier. The enemy beat you because they joined armies together first and overwhelmed your terran buddy making it essentially a 3v1. You can't be split up in team games or you will lose. This is why I like to rush and push out at around 5 minutes. People are really hardly ready for a 3v1 at 5 minutes. You can easily overwhelm 1 player at 5 minutes. When you push out, you gain map control allowing you to also expand. When you expand, it doubles your power with every base/expansion you take. Big key to success is that once you push out, you can't stop the pressure, you have to keep the pressure on your enemies or else they will push back and own you. I challenge you to make attack waves every 5 minutes together with all your team mates, I guarantee that you will win more games. Attack with all you got every 5 minutes. Next I challenge you to expand every time you attack. You WILL win more games. Put these constraints on yourself and practice them, practice them, practice them. You WILL get better.
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    3. #3
      Moderator Flamga's Avatar
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      I did start writing this before someone replied >.< lol, but maybe itll add to it, as we both say similar things

      yea team games can be like that, well there are a few reasons. team games you have to attack and defend together. This can be achieved as follows:

      If you are all being OFFENSIVE:
      > All attacking the one person at the same time, best example is everyone going 6 pool (which isnt cheese in team games lol) if its 3 armies v 1 army then its obvious who is going to win.
      > Driving a wedge between the armies, any conflicts that involve you have more units than them is better, that means having one person block while two attack a main base to deal damage, there isnt much the attacked person can do.

      For DEFENSIVE stuff:
      > Finding a common point between all your bases to keep all your units at, good example is monsoon with only 1 way to get from their base to yours. As soon as they split your armies you are at a disadvantage.
      > If one of your teammates is being killed, charging your only army may save him, but youll most likely have no units to defend the next attack successfully, the best they can do is to die slowly and let you get a bigger army, remember to get that big army early they will sacrifice tech, economy and expansions to keep the pressure on. the longer it takes, the more time you ahve to get a bigger and better army to wipe them out.

      Your best bet is to either watch OMZ and SCVrush matches and seeing how they have the synergy between them to attack and defend as one, and maybe also watch Day9's episode on team play to get some ideas.

      Watching your replay however:

      > Your team actually had unit producing structures EARLIER than your opponents, and you all waited to produce units? For terran and toss, your unit producing building should always be making units, even if that means adding some zealots before the cyber core is up, nothing to stop a push with 2 zealots, 2 marines and 4 lings on 1 persons base to scout and take some units out.

      > You saw their army coming, and never moved into position to help, he had 3v1 on teal, then 2v1 on you, and red never really joined the fight. You didnt have enough units to defend, this means either you werent spending all your resources, and also your team mates doing the same thing. Red had an early pool and never got queen or lings or even early speed. Teal got a few marines and then stopped. You did manage a good army, but had no support from your team mates.

      It comes down to team work, if you have team mates that cant pull their weight, then this will continually happen, so make a decision with regarding what builds you want to use:

      > Do ALL of you want to be aggressive or defensive (tech, expand, macro etc)?
      > Then stick to that, if you all be aggressive, you all have to work together to make sure that your armies work together to kill off at least one player and stop the others from expanding.
      > If you decide to be defensive, make sure that you all know to scout and move into position in case the attack comes, when it does if they make it through barely, let them die slowly for the team while you build up and annihilate them.

      The thing to remember is not to look at this like 1v1, thats completely different. In team games you can afford to go that 6 or 10 pool, maybe an early 2rax rush or 4gate proxy rush.

      I hope that helps XD, hit me up for a game I will join yas and see if I can help you out
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    4. #4
      Senior Member smagee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Flamga View Post
      Do ALL of you want to be aggressive or defensive (tech, expand, macro etc)? Then stick to that, if you all be aggressive, you all have to work together to make sure that your armies work together to kill off at least one player and stop the others from expanding.
      I'm curious, is this actually viable in 3v3? I have extremely limited exposure to such games, but in my experience, it's simply impossible for any single player to decide to tech up while the other two go with rush Tier 1 units. It may simply be my own inexperience speaking, but any time my team is placed in such a situation, one player *always* gets virtually steamrolled to the point where, although he could make a comeback, there really is no point.

      So, long story short, I want to see 3v3 with our revered SCV, OMZ, and Oink (heh) in said situation to see how it all unfolds. Although I'd settle for a livecast with some of our not-quite-so-pro-level players, if necessary .
      -smagee (#948), GMT -8

    5. #5
      Member McWill's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by chrisrichter69 View Post
      I challenge you to make attack waves every 5 minutes together with all your team mates, I guarantee that you will win more games. Attack with all you got every 5 minutes. Next I challenge you to expand every time you attack. You WILL win more games. Put these constraints on yourself and practice them, practice them, practice them. You WILL get better.
      then submit to monday.day9@.... xD

      all good advice though. i havent watched the replay yet but going by the other comments you cant really play 1v1 styles in team games. something I'm guilty of and frequently punished for

      as said above, if you want to be offensive you must all join your armys together to kill off one player as fast as you can and then never stop the aggression, don't let them tech.

      defensive play; accept that one of you is going to die if they rush. it really cant be helped, you shouldn't waste what few units you have marching in to save your friend unless its a really weak rush.
      I doubt even the likes of Foxer or fruit dealer could stop a relatively well executed early all-in from 3 people.
      The 2 surviving players should quickly macro up to take advantage of there weak econ. the guy who is rushed should do his best to die slowly. its not a bad idea to get a really fast bunkers/cannons/spinecrawlers for a team game in my experience, if you see a rush coming. you'll do way more damage with them than without. weaken the rush enough before you die and your almost certainly going to win

      McWill 243 - EU

    6. #6
      Senior Member IceCraft's Avatar
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      Has anyone seen CellaWerra's 13 gate strat? Pretty damn hilarious
      He was playing 2v2 (vsing noobs tho)
      He played protoss, built 13 gateways b4 a single zealot, and had warp gates, then massed atk on his enemies after they atk'd his ally.
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    7. #7
      Moderator Moderas's Avatar
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      13 gates before zealot? How the hell did his opponent not have air units yet? O.o
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    8. #8
      Senior Member IceCraft's Avatar
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      YouTube - CellaWerra - 2v2 - Best Protoss Build Ever! 13 Gate
      You gotta just watchc it, its hilarious
      This made me have a big smile on my face
      IceCraft 798 - Error? I'll add you then :) Gimme a shout with your info ^_^
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    9. #9
      Moderator Moderas's Avatar
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      ... I dont even... and I thought 14 nexus was a greedy build...
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    10. #10
      Moderator Flamga's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by IceCraft View Post
      YouTube - CellaWerra - 2v2 - Best Protoss Build Ever! 13 Gate
      You gotta just watchc it, its hilarious
      This made me have a big smile on my face
      This has got to be the most hilarious thing ever!
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