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Thread: Starcraft 2: Expand Timing - when to put up an expansion
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    1. #11
      Senior Member smagee's Avatar
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      Just watched that one last night myself; the first game was a real eye-opener. As Zerg, I'm used to expanding frequently (although not with that regularity), but I couldn't imagine trying to do it as Protoss.

      I've been considering playing a few ladder matches where I deliberately set that constraint on myself just to see how my play adjusts. I can't imagine it could hurt at all, and odds are pretty good I'd come out with at least a few wins.
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    2. #12
      Senior Member Fealorin's Avatar
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      This is why I am religious about expanding, even as terran (considered the race that needs to expand the least). Expanding frequently can really do you wonders, especially for zerg.
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    3. #13
      Moderator Flamga's Avatar
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      Yep it is like that, i think the issue is that most players on ladder are needlessly aggressive, so you cant afford to expand like that, i know ive played many people where ive expanded and been on the defensive with just random units sent to my base or needless harass. It ends up with a win for me but its still annoying that most peoples answer to espansion is needless aggression, not expansion, tech or timing push, mind that may have something to do with being in plat still >.<
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    4. #14
      Junior Member Grathak's Avatar
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      Very interesting read, thanks for all the information.

      I admit (and I know myself, which makes it even worse) that I'm really bad at timing my expansions, even though my primary race is Zerg - but then again I still sometimes forget to build a pool or a roach warren at the right time, too, so my timing sucks in general, and expansions is just one part of that..
      I've tried to go FE or even normal expansion in some of our games, but in those instances the enemy team usually overran our bases (or at least my base) so early that I wasn't able to fend them off, leaving me (and our team) in a crippled situation if it wasn't just GG right away..

      ..although I think that our biggest problem is not the missing expansions, but that we don't read the enemy team very good - our scouting sucks, and so we don't really know what to expect, and what to do in response, and guessing doesn't work too well most of the time..

      Grathak #706 (EU) :: GMT +1

      Zerging around in EU 3v3 bronze leage on fridays - being flabbergasted to see people who actually know what they're doing ingame on livestream the rest of the time. ^^

    5. #15
      Moderator Moderas's Avatar
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      Completely off topic, but for 3v3 purposes if scouting is a problem just have your terran player drop a second orbital really early and use it for nothing but scans. He can just float it to his expansion when he is ready, and you get all kinds of free information.
      Add me: Moderas character code: 933

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    6. #16
      Junior Member Grathak's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Moderas View Post
      Completely off topic, but for 3v3 purposes if scouting is a problem just have your terran player drop a second orbital really early and use it for nothing but scans. He can just float it to his expansion when he is ready, and you get all kinds of free information.
      I'll pitch it to our Terran, thanks.

      At the moment I try to get my Overlords spread over the map, watching possible expansions and peeking into the enemies bases, but mostly I'm either too cautious and miss the critical parts, or too nosy and get my OL killed - or they're just too slow to get anywhere. Our protoss member sometimes goes for Observers, but not too often, I'm not sure if that's actually a detour in his tech tree..

      But you're right on something else, too - "3v3" and "scouting" are rather offtopic topics for this expand timing thread, I'll try to put up a separate thread to voice my gibberish questions, although I did already find some interesting comments and discussions in other threads in the meantime..

      Grathak #706 (EU) :: GMT +1

      Zerging around in EU 3v3 bronze leage on fridays - being flabbergasted to see people who actually know what they're doing ingame on livestream the rest of the time. ^^

    7. #17
      Member McWill's Avatar
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      i don't think this is directly what the topic was intended for, but its related and interesting imo.
      what are all your thought on the fastest SAFE expansion timings for each matchup?

      now i know scouting is important, but you cant wait for your scout to spot the 8 pool or hatch before you make gateway or nexus first. he'll be in your base before either finish if he goes fast pool. you have go go in blind and it is therefore not safe. What I'm looking for is how fast you think you can expand safely without early scouting and without loosing to early pressure/allins?
      i think this could be beneficial to aspiring macro players such as myself ^^

      its costing me alot of games trying to work this out xD but its fun.
      please correct or improve anything i say as i suck at sc2 its harder and not as safe but i think you can get away with going nexus first if you pylon scout and do a good job with probe harass?
      PvZ i'm really not sure yet. A pool can come at any time and may quickly be followed by roaches so your never really safe with only a handfull of zealots or stalkers unless you know exactly whats coming. the most success I've had is expanding after my second gateway, but thats not really that fast imo.

      Terran.
      i'm actually the worse terran player in the world so i need help here going 1rax bunker seems to work for me most of the time. But i cant hold everything doing this and i can't be sure if its because it isnt a safe way to FE or because i'm aweful

      thoughts?

      McWill 243 - EU

    8. #18
      Senior Member Lemanruss's Avatar
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      Well. I have to admit, I love this thread it's quite interesting, and shows all the "secrets" and opinions from players.

      I have to admit, I'm of the agressive kind player. I think that the more players the harder becomes to expand. Usually in 4vs4 i ghet to expand 2 times, and maybe(and that's really unusual) 1 more hatchery, while in 2v2 I use to have 4 hatcheries at least, usually 5, and If we "DOOMinate" :P the map 7 is a good number, but 14??? holy cow...

      My FE is usually at 15 hatch, with no building before, or 17 with lings, the next expansions come to the order of 1 after upgrading hatch for the first time, other after building the important construction of the tier(spire if I'm going mutas, or hidras if going ground), and the following one after upgrading for the second time the main hatchery. The others I create are after getting to my tech "target", and I build as many as I consider needed depending on how many units I loose, and economy lvls. So that makes the 4/5 usual. main +1 at t2 upgrade +1 after main construction at t2 +1 at t3 upgrade +1 at t3 construction/tech update.
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    9. #19
      Moderator Redux0718's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by McWill View Post
      Terran.
      i'm actually the worse terran player in the world so i need help here
      I beg to differ
      LanEvoIII #988

      Feel free to add me though I have not played multiplayer yet and I have not been placed yet. I will play my placement matches after my college studies (almost done).


    10. #20
      Moderator Moderas's Avatar
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      To McWill: If you want safety I would suggest the 2 rax FE. It will rarely fall to any early agression as long as you put up reactionary bunkers and you still expand around 20 supply.
      Add me: Moderas character code: 933

      "I wish I was your derivative, so that I could lie tangent to your curves." Physics jokes ftw

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