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Thread: Starcraft 2 TvZ 1.12 Strategy
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    1. #1
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      Starcraft 2 TvZ 1.12 Strategy

      Hey all,

      First of all, kudos to the UEN staff because this is the most friendly group I've found -- from noob to high level. Seriously, a big thanks, as I've gone from brozne (zilch RTS experience) to Platinum - almost diamond in 3 months since discovering this site.

      As some of you have been so kind to help me practice my TvZ, I'd like to share my strategy (which is really Nyte's strategy 1700 diamond vs zerg) with you all. I was really frustrated with 1.12 -- winning 80+% of all my games then suddenly 10+ loss streak against zerg only...

      When you're like me, having been a bronze with a 5-40 win-loss ratio, and working back up to 55% win ratio... this is really annoying! Battle.net is convinced your MMR is a fluke and doesn't want to promote you until you won ~ 50+ in a row at each level... argh!

      Ok to the strategy. Essentially, as T in the early game you need to counter a FE (Fast expansion) zerg or a fast roach zerg in order to get enough time to get your 2nd base up... from this point.. you're on your own..

      Essentially, you want to get a fast barracks and move into 4-5 barracks with 2 tech labs pumping marauders. I found that I started with 4 barracks and moved into a 5th marine barracks... It's a slight variation of Nyte's 4 rax. The crucial thing is that you must micro your marauders and marines as per Nyte's explanation. This is the key to it all.

      Marauders are your meat shield... marines are your dps. Combat shield and concussive shell before stim --- you want them to live as long as possible.. stim later in order to crush them.

      The final thing to note is scouting is KEY -- rescout -- scout often -- scout lots:

      1) if they FE, be happy.. this is going to be easy... delay their FE... let them sink minerals into an expansion.. (try to save your SD or engineering bay -- I like the bay.. it's 50 more.. more health... just cancel it!!) then push early with a small group of marines like 6-8 as per Nyte's suggestion... then make your marauder / marine force and push out at 60 food...

      2) if they go early roach... pull back.. make 1 to 2 bunkers and an early marauder.. crush the roach.. salvage the bunkers and with your marauder / marine force, push hard. Marauders up front.. marines in back.. reinforce.. kill queen - drones - roaches - then base..

      3) always scout for a proxy expansion (ie.. expansion not in the usual location).. if they don't gg once you destroyed their queen - drones... you know they have another expansion.

      Hope this works for you.. I've only loss when I wasn't prepared for the roach rush... but once I countered that.. it was ridiculously easy to win. It's almost an all-in strategy for zerg.

      Add me if you want to practice.

      Mav

      -----------


      Nyte's post:


      9 - supply
      10- scout and build-halt a supply depot at zerg natural, use this scv to keep scouting his drone in case he runs it somewhere else to build a hatch
      11 - rax
      13 - supply to block off ramp
      14 - orbital
      15-20 - make 3 more rax
      22-27 - timing push with rine force but don't just all-in this, use this force to kill off ovies and/or some zerg forces but don't a-move in his base and expect to win. While this is happening, dual refinery and tech lab 2-3 rax.
      30-50 - Research concussion and shield (no need for stimpacks), make 2-1 rine-rauder force, hotkey rauder as 1, hotkey rines as 2-3 and make rines follow rauders.
      50-60 - Timing push again with rauders in front, save up scans to scan sides in case they hid lings for baneling surprise attack. Build CC in base to expand while this is happening.
      60-70 - Constant rally stream to rauders maintaining army ratio. Use rauders to block ramp and use rines to kill natural.

      This bulid will counter:
      Bane-zerglings
      Muta-lings
      Roach-lings
      Roach rush
      Bane-bust
      Muta-rush
      Infestor-fungal-thing

      This build will fail on:
      Nothing

      Anyways, post-patch zerg owned me from 1700 diamond to 1350, I fought my way back up to 1700 using this timing push/pressure build though. Note that it does require some micro to beat back banelings but shouldn't be too hard considering most zerg a-move their banes. If they don't, use your rauders to pick off the banelings with concussive shell.
      Last edited by SCVrush; 11-04-2010 at 03:08 PM.
      MavRCK
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    2. #2
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      Good strat, make sure to expand when you do your first push. But one REALLY BIG FLAW to this strat is GET STIM! GET FREAKING STIM!
      Stim > concussive shells and marine shields combine

      FFS GET STIM!

      If the strat is really micro based you would get stim. not getting stim and getting concussive shells and marine shield is probably the noobest thing ive heard in a while.

      Another thing is it's better to get 3 barracks and get stim before that first push. You can't really support 4barracks with addons and upgrades and expanding while pushing with just 1 base. Guarantee that if you're constantly building with 4 barracks while getting shield/concussive shells you will not have enough to constantly pump out of those 4 barracks. 3 barrack is much better with earlier stim, you just have to macro well.
      Last edited by Antonio Banderes; 11-04-2010 at 02:26 PM.

    3. #3
      Moderator Moderas's Avatar
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      I must agree, any strat that uses bio needs stim. Even marine/tank/viking gets stim.
      Add me: Moderas character code: 933

      "I wish I was your derivative, so that I could lie tangent to your curves." Physics jokes ftw

    4. #4
      Senior Member smagee's Avatar
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      While I agree that stim is far too useful to ignore, I do see where the OP is getting this from (aside from actual game, experience, of course) and think it might be beneficial that we hold back a bit on the public flogging. He makes a valid point that if you're going that early against a fairly robust force, stim may cost too much health, particularly when you don't anticipate getting meds anytime soon.

      Not being a Terran player, I'm uncertain as to how it balances out vs. shields, but I don't see any harm in having him post alternative strategies to the typical Barracks>Lab>Stim!!! methodology. Describing a technique that is actively working hardly seems like "the noobest thing" in the world.

      To the OP: thanks for putting together a rather detailed strategy, and especially for providing replays and links to your source. Note that while not all will agree with the strat as its laid out, it's always nice to have new ones show up here that are somewhat different and proven effective.
      -smagee (#948), GMT -8

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by smagee
      To the OP: thanks for putting together a rather detailed strategy, and especially for providing replays and links to your source. Note that while not all will agree with the strat as its laid out, it's always nice to have new ones show up here that are somewhat different and proven effective.
      Actually denying the fact that stim is better than conc shells and shields for this push is super duper upper noobiiiiii.
      Your argument is invalid when it comes to survivability stim is better than concussive shells and shields.. for a million reasons
      i'm going to list some

      1. You do 50% more damage with stim, which means your opponents units die 50% faster, which means you take 50% less damage. (these aren't hard numbers but it will give you an idea)
      2. Stim lets you micro better because your units move faster. You can hit and run more which further increases survivability by an immense amount.
      3. You can decide to run away with stim in a case your opponent has you dominated.

      it's up to you what you want to believe but you know deep down inside i'm right and the OP will soon realize this.

      I'm not saying the opener is noobish, i'm saying that getting concussive shells and shields and not stim is noobish. get your facts straight - you know i'm right and you know you're wrong.

      del pwned!

      oh yeah, the main reason this strategy works is because zergs at 1700 diamond are not used to the timing. They tend to drone up lots expecting some kind of mech play with a mix of air and barrack units, which is alot slower than this timing push, I know this because i play terran at 1700+ diamond. The truth is i want to try this strategy because i'm having trouble with timing attacks that involve heavier mech play as it is too slow if you don't manage to harass the zerg well.

      When zergs scout this strat they will just simply hold back on drones a bit and make an army to stomp this push, then the real game starts. This is just an opener, it's not meant to kill the zerg, but hurt the zerg as much as you can within a timing window (hence stim owns because you can do more damage within that given window). del pwned ^2

      UknwI-MriteANDuwrongfoo
      Last edited by Antonio Banderes; 11-04-2010 at 02:55 PM.

    6. #6
      Moderator SCVrush's Avatar
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      If you don't get stim, Baneling Zerglings will Rape you. This guy doesn't know what he is talking about. You need stim or else you are done. You don't get stim for the damage, you get it for the mobility against a fast zerg. Imo, this on bnet sounds like he likes to 1a2a3a which doesn't work most of the time.

      If you do push him with 3 early rax which could mess up the zerg's production and macro. You could get a big lead. His subsequent moves are flawed.

      In TvZ, mobility is so important. No one goes mech anymore =\

      PS:
      This guy wrote "This build will fail on: Nothing". He is delusional.
      Last edited by SCVrush; 11-04-2010 at 04:35 PM.

    7. #7
      Moderator Moderas's Avatar
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      Stim marines are the most cost effective unit in the game. They out DPS lings while having 5 range, GtA and GtG, and 10 more health. Your best bet would be to get stim from one tech lab then shields from the 2nd. Immediately research conc when shields finishes. Push when stim finishes and conc will end about the time you get to their doorstep.

      edit: If you want a micro heavy build go with a marine/medi/raven SK Terran style build or BoxeR's pure marine upgrade push. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=163605 , for example.

      Also, Smagee is right. I think overall people are being a bit harsh. We need to keep things civil while debating strategies.
      Last edited by Moderas; 11-04-2010 at 03:23 PM.
      Add me: Moderas character code: 933

      "I wish I was your derivative, so that I could lie tangent to your curves." Physics jokes ftw

    8. #8
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      sorry down here at mehico we don't do things civil. we like to break the law and stuff so it's in our nature amigo.
      no need of offend my amigos. Mexicans are free spirited you see, we don't hold back we just keep going even if we see a fence we go over it.

      My sincerest appologies amigo

    9. #9
      Senior Member smagee's Avatar
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      This guy wrote "This build will fail on: Nothing". He is delusional.
      Delusional or not, stomping all over strategy contributions, however misguided or unviable, is hardly the best way to cultivate a community. Critiques? Sure, a simple "I don't think that build is entirely viable, as lings/banes will dominate it unless you have stim" could work wonders. Personal attacks and outright dismissal of a relatively new poster (who at least has shown evidence that he's trying to contribute constructively), on the other hand, seems a bit much.

      Nonetheless, as Mod has stated, I simply felt things were a bit too warm in this thread. I'll let it lie here.
      -smagee (#948), GMT -8

    10. #10
      Senior Member Fealorin's Avatar
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      I don't know why we are even talking about this. Just watch my TvZ replays and you'll see how to beat zerg. It's not about early push against a zerg FE, it's about keeping pressure while expanding yourself. When I play TvZ, I constantly pump units and attack any of my OP's expansions, if you get lucky, you'll take one down, yeah sure you'll be sending a lot of men on suicide missions, but this keeps the zerg OP constantly making units. If you use heavy BIO, it's even better, your OP will be constantly making banelings to counter, wasting a lot of his minerals and gas on units that don't come back. Going for a one-base 4 rax push is the wrong way to respond to a zerg FE.

      Here are two examples of what I am talking about. I don't let up on my opponent. I just keep hammering him with units:
      TvZ Metalopolis High Diamond - Starcraft 2 Replays - Starcraft 2 Forum
      TvZ Desert Oasis High Diamond - Starcraft 2 Replays - Starcraft 2 Forum
      Fealorin.945
      http://uentv.blip.tv/
      www.ustream.tv/channel/theuen
      www.livestream.com/theuen

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